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lpyyxw -

dear here2learn:

here is what i think (didn't bother to read other replies) about the touching and related issues.

i have to say chinese men are....what can i say, too platonic in disguise, and for a western girl
(speaking for myself, for any normal human being for that matter), this is really annoying, you
just never know what he is up to!!! if im a girl, i will find this a PROBLEM too. BUT, how did
Chinese girls cope with that?

answer 1: most Chinese girls nowadays, no matter how sickly curious of them about sex and this and
that (from the media, movies etc etc), to my surprise they are still withheld by that
thousandyears old Chinese motto, which instead of being a virtue, i say it's crap, just another
way to repress healthy human desire and suppress thoughts, as a psychologist, i f.......hate that
shit and other related Chinese phenomena, look what it does to this nation, in the face of a
global world??? ok, a bit veered off, so, bottomline, the Chinese girls may look totally
comfortable with never-ending-no-physical-contact, it doesn't mean they are satisfied, but, guess
what, their thoughts are so suppressed, they don't know what they are feeling, and from primary
school on, they've been taught to get by, so, to get by is how they are coping, but obviously,
this is not for western girls, and, not for any healthy person. i think what we can learn from the
get-by girls is, understand the mechanisms behind him, lest get yourself burst up out of confusion
and frustration, and hopefully, to help you know when to take certain action. so, really, answer
one provides very little practical solution.

answer 2: speak out, you are a western girl supposedly conforming to that hollywood movie
cheerleader stereotype, be it true or not, let's grab it for now and make use of it. specifically,
ask him clearly if he is thinking of making some advances, no ambiguity, yes, this usually is not
asked from a woman, but for a slow-coming guy like him, just take the extrordinary measure, this
won't hurt. If he went away shocked, thinking oh shit this western girl IS forward and i don't
like assertive women and retreat, then you at least know he likes submissive ones, and if you feel
wronged and you ARE actually 'submissive', then use some more words to say, you just are really
confused, someone has to lead the play, right? it's never too late to restore the order, so to
speak, once the ice's been broken and things become clear. so answer 2 suggest verbal tactic and a
little out of the 'ordinary', counter gender desirability measure.

answer 2 brings you to this state is because the subtle way no longer works.

finally, just leave him, if he keeps coming back, question him in the face, why are you pesting
me, i thought we were just friends, friends don't ring, text, this and that this often! and then
you will know.

'geez, how come i never get to meet such a western girl', answer: im staying at home all the time,
forced to, but wait until i go back to the UK, thats where i call home!



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Kevin_D -

As a chinese guy, I can't agree with lpyyxw's opinion.

From my view, I can give you the answer that why chinese guys are so "platonic",because almost
every chinese guy want to prove himself thoughtful.At least,I do not want to do anythings before
the girl haven't submit to my connotation.Even after this 'playing process',guys do not change
anything a little,they still keep their favorite model.Trying to date with a chinese normal guy
and watching him,you will find that his behavior at first not acts as his own.These guys are
proving that they are mature,they are adult,they are grown-up.

But why they would do that? Because it is a very complicated thing to judge people
grown-up.Otherwise,we normally call this behavior in western words 'sophisticated'.
Because,sophisticate is very important in chinese culture.

In chinese culture,hungering for sex is an immature or juvenile behavior, no more anything else.










taryn -

Ahh!
So it sounds like, from what Kevin's saying, that honor is not dead in China. That's a nice
thought.

At the same time, the very concept made me want to scream at the end of Crouching Tiger
(卧虎藏龙) because really though, can honor be more important than love? If you have been
honorable, than you deserve to express your love. Everytime I watch that dang movie I'm like, "Li
MuBai, just TELL HER already!"

So for all the fellas, my word of advice is, "Honor before love, but never in place of love."










here2learn -



Quote:

because almost every chinese guy want to prove himself thoughtful.At least,I do not want to do
anythings before the girl haven't submit to my connotation.....
....These guys are proving that they are mature,they are adult,they are grown-up.
....
...In chinese culture,hungering for sex is an immature or juvenile behavior, no more anything else.

Well that's a really good reason. But if he's waiting for the girl to show she's ok with him going
further.... then it's the girl who's really "making the first moves".

So it's like this. On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is a small look and 10 is jumping all over the
person,knocking them down onto the bed.....

Guy won't do anything unless girl does a few 1's...
then he does a few ones and maybe a 2
then she does more ones and also 2, and hopes he'll do a 3
but he doesn't know if he should do a 3 so he waits for her to do it
But she doesn't want to be too forward; a guy should make the moves...
so they wait and wait
finally she does a 3
and he's so happy, he also does a 3, maybe twice.
then she hopes he'll do a 4 really soon,
and they wait
and wait
and wait
and it takes forever because the guy doesn't want to be a sleazebag and the girl doesn't want to
appear like a slut.

No wonder people wait for marriage, at least by then YOU"RE SURE!!!




Quote:

So for all the fellas, my word of advice is, "Honor before love, but never in place of love."

Aww, how sweet!
A bunch of sweet guys on here today.


I'll be seeing my friend tomorrow.
We'll see how it goes.
I hope he's not too sweet.










Lu -



Quote:

So it's like this. On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is a small look and 10 is jumping all over the
person, knocking them down onto the bed.....

Guy won't do anything unless girl does a few 1's...
then he does a few ones and maybe a 2
then she does more ones and also 2, and hopes he'll do a 3
but he doesn't know if he should do a 3 so he waits for her to do it
But she doesn't want to be too forward; a guy should make the moves...
so they wait and wait
finally she does a 3
and he's so happy, he also does a 3, maybe twice.
then she hopes he'll do a 4 really soon,
and they wait
and wait
and wait
and it takes forever because the guy doesn't want to be a sleazebag and the girl doesn't want to
appear like a slut.

I had to laugh so hard about how you describe it :-D "and he's so happy, he also does a 3, maybe
twice", LOL

How I finally got together with my ex: there had been a few 1s and 2s that day (actually there had
been 1s and 2s for weeks and months), and on the train back I suggested we go for a drink
somewhere when we got home. He apparently took this as everything from 3 to 7, and proceeded to
put his arm around me. It then took one other evening featuring a bottle of wine, and we were set.
Maybe you can try alcohol :-)

I'd say Chinese guys are very well capable of eventually making a move, but it can take a lot of
time, and might never happen at all. One friend told me of a family member of hers: he loved the
girl next door. He loved her and loved her for years, but never told her or made a move, and in
the end she inevitably married someone else. He is still single.










gougou -



Quote:

No wonder people wait for marriage, at least by then YOU"RE SURE!!

Great theory with the 1's to 10's!

I think another motivation to wait till marriage would be that then either partner could skip the
1-9's and come with a 10 right away without being afraid of being looked at as a slut/playboy.










here2learn -



Quote:

How I finally got together with my ex: there had been a few 1s and 2s that day (actually there had
been 1s and 2s for weeks and months)

That's where I'm at.




Quote:

, and on the train back I suggested we go for a drink somewhere when we got home. He apparently
took this as everything from 3 to 7, and proceeded to put his arm around me. It then took one
other evening featuring a bottle of wine, and we were set. Maybe you can try alcohol :-)

Ha! Now I'm laughing too, I like your style, but for me it's just humor and won't really happen...
This friend of mine isn't really the drinking type, and neither am I.... I mean I really don't
like the taste of much alcohol and in our.... 5? times eating together now he never once ordered a
beer, let alone suggested anything else. Nothing. And he's "early to bed, early to rise".... so I
don't think I can use the old "get her drunk" trick... the one the high school guys used to think
was the key to the Universe. LOL


I'm pretty sure by now he's thought of being more than friends... as i said this was our 5th or so
time out together, though today was with another person the whole time, so barely a touch... well,
a few accidental wisps of elbows or light tap to get attention. Those are the 2's....

...............2's


*sigh*...................yep. 2's.


I think a 3 would be some kind of touch that is clearly more than friendship, like holding hands,
or an arm around, or walking arm-in-arm in a more than friends way. Any kind of touch really,
anything, anywhere, but that is clearly not for a utilitarian purpose or a way your coworker at
the next desk might touch you.

That is my next goal.
Is it MY job to DO IT?
I don't want it to be.


Fear of rejection AND I just feel it's more romantic if the guy does it. It feels more special.












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