Chinese Studies - 2 bedroom flat in Huaqingjiayuan/ WuDaoKou/ BeiDa/Qinghua -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
2 bedroom flat in Huaqingjiayuan/ WuDaoKou/ BeiDa/Qinghua
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jinjin -

I have a two bedroom flat in Huaqingjiayuan. I am leaving in mid June and need someone to take
over my room (I will pay for all of June for you). My roommate will be leaving in mid-July. The
lease ends at the end of July so you can sign a new lease with the landlord. My roommate will be
responsible in finding you a roommate and you can help her choose to make sure you like the person.

Apartment features: large bed, spacious cabinets, nice large window, AC unit, fully furnished,
balcony, kitchen, refridgerator, microwave, gas range, washing machine, water delivery, maid
service, western toilet, shower with detachable head, a couch and two chairs, flat screen
television with free cable, internet hookups (and can also leave you my wireless router), etc.

Huaqingjiayuan is hot hot hot. It is close to both Qinghua, BLCU and BeiDa (I go to BeiDa, my
roommate goes to Qinghua). It is a very popular place and it fills up quickly. You are about one
block from the subway, and there are many clothing stores and restaurants around you.

Rent is 2250/person per month. Please IM me if this sounds good to you!

I can send picture on request.



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HSK - Chinese at Beihang University -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Chinese at Beihang University
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Jekai -

Greetings!

I was looking for Chinese language schools recently, and I came across a training program at
Beihang University. They offer courses from a few weeks to a full year, with 20 hours of classes a
week. (And can issue student visa paperwork!) Quite a bit cheaper than most other universities
I've seen with similar programs, too. I'm probably going to apply for a full year, starting in the
fall semester (application deadline lasts until the end of June) but first I wanted to know if
anyone here has any experience with this school, good or bad.

Here's a link to the site with all the info:
http://is.buaa.edu.cn/eng/chinese.asp

Thanks all! Any info from you guys would be great!



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Learn Chinese - ACLS and BCLU - plans for learning putonghua -

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Chinese in Beijing
ACLS and BCLU - plans for learning putonghua
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NickyR -

Hi everyone,

I’m afraid this is yet another series of questions about studying in Beijing.

I appreciate that us newbies regurgitate the same old questions over and over again, but I really
respect the opinions of everyone who posts on this forum, so I’d really appreciate it if you
could cast your wise eyes over my plans to learn/improve my chinese.

This is the background of me!
I’m 28 years old
I am coming to Beijing between July and December of this year
The sole focus of my trip is to learn Mandarin (I want to have fun obviously, but language
learning is really going to be the focus). This means that I am prepared to have less of a social
life in favour of memorising lists of characters (though I reserve the right to change my mind
about this later on!)
I do speak a little mandarin. I reckon I know about 400 characters. So I basically know what a
radical is but can’t really function in the language to any significant degree. Also, because of
the way I was taught Mandarin, I literally only know words I can write (i.e. I only know about 400
words!)
I am probably more academic than practical in the way I approach language learning. That is to say
that I learn best in a classroom environment. I have utter respect for people who can just rock up
in a foreign country and start absorbing the language but I am not one of them. I have therefore
decided to take language classes for the entire period that I am in Beijing. I am also not put off
by a formal and non-practical teaching environment. I see this will not work for all people but it
should work for me.
I am being sponsored by my employer (I am a lawyer). This may make my financing a little unusual.
I need to show them that I am not living in the lap of luxury in Beijing (i.e. I have sensibly
costed out the trip). However, it is not absolutely essential for me to keep costs as low as
possible. In fact, I would go so far that I (or rather they) would be prepared to pay for
convenience. Thus, though I do not feel any need to go through a company to sort everything out
for me, I would like to have a place on my course booked before I arrive
I do not need to show my employer on my return any kind of certificate in language learning (eg I
got an A in the X university’s diploma course). However I will (rather horrifyingly) have an
exam when I get back to work which will assess my language ability so they know whether they can
trust me with Chinese clients etc). Therefore real progress is more important to me than a
certificate. However, I would like to have some written testament to my ability for my CV (I am in
the early stage of my career and law firms are falling over themselves to sign up Chinese speakers)
I also plan to live with a family. I hope that this will assist in me developing fluency. However,
I am not keen on the idea of total immersion. I have lived abroad before and I DO get lonely if I
can’t talk to people in my own language for an entire 6 months. I have a big gob and like
talking – I feel very down when I can’t chatter away (which, let’s face it, I won’t be
doing in mandarin for a good while). As a result, I am not put off by the idea of being in a
language school with at least some English speakers.



These are my plans!

Stage 1: Academy of Chinese language Study
 I am thinking of spending the first 10 odd weeks (i.e. the bit that is the summer holiday) at
a private language school.
 I have come across ACLS and was impressed by the small class sizes, although I am aware I know
next to nothing about it.
 I feel that the advantage of this at the start is that:

o It should be flexible enough to deal with my level: in all the university based courses I seem
to sit in a large gap between total beginner and 800 characters
o It deals with the problem of me arriving in university holidays: it seems to me that if I learn
at BCLU or UIR during the summer then I will have to do 2 four-week courses. I think I’d prefer
a bit of continuity in my tuition than that
o The dates are quite good for me: I know this sounds like a small thing, but the 10 week course
starts on a better date for me as it starts in the second week of July. All of the university
courses seem to start in the last week of June or the first week of July. I have exams until the
last week of June so I can see this horrible situation developing where I am trying to revise and
move out of my London flat at the same time, then running from my exam hall to Heathrow. Not a
happy start to the trip!

Questions about this leg
 Can anyone offer any explanation as to why it is slightly cheaper to apply through worldlink
education for this course than it is to apply to the ACLS itself? Although I have no particular
need to go through an agency, I am starting to wonder whether it might be necessary as I have not
booked anything/applied for a visa and my passport is currently lost in the ether of the British
Passport office.....
 Do you think the tuition is inferior to a university course?
 Does anyone know whether the accreditation thing actually adds any value/legitimacy to the
program?

 These are the questions I am hoping to level at ACLS:
o Which textbooks do you use?
o How are the classes structured?
o How much homework is required of me?

 Can anyone think of any intelligent questions I should ask?!


Stage 2: BLCU
 I am thinking of spending the last 12 weeks of my time in Beijing (i.e. the bit that is in
term time) at a university.
 I selected BCLU for slightly rubbish reasons: it seems to be reasonably cheap, it has better
dates than UIR, and because my computer is steadfastly refusing to open web pages for Beijing
Normal University
 I feel the advantage of ending up with a university programme are as follows:

o Teaching quality: I do kind of feel that teaching quality is often very dependent on your
individual teacher, which is often more luck than judgement, but I am aware that a university is
likely to have a more transparent system of quality control
o Certificate: I think in terms of wanting some kind of testament of my ability in Chinese, a
certificate from a university might carry more weight.
o Structure: I think that at this stage in the trip I personally would benefit from a structured
environment with tests


Questions about this leg

 The class sizes seem very big to me – how does this operate on a practical level? Do people
think there are advantages or disadvantages to these sizes?

 These are the questions I am hoping to level at BLCU
o Textbook/class structure/homework etc

 Can anyone think of any intelligent questions I should ask?!


None of these plans are set in stone so I would be very keen to hear your honest opinions about
what I’ve planned.


Also, this again sounds like quite a small thing, but does anyone know whether there is air
conditioning in the classrooms of ACLS and/or BLCU? I learnt Mandarin at the wonderful Chinese
University of Hong Kong – BUT my abilities decreased as the temperatures soared. I’m a Brit
– I function best in cold, wet environments. I am seriously worried that I will not be able to
cope in the Beijing summer heat??!!

Accommodation

 I am not sure that really my situation is any different here to anyone else’s – but I
thought I’d just add what I have planned in respect of accommodation just so you have a full
picture of my time planned in Beijing
 I definitely plan to do one of the following things:
a. Get an apartment for the first leg, then live in a homestay for the second half of my trip; or
b. Stay in a homestay for the whole period.

 I think the advantage of option one is that I reckon if I join a homestay now then I won’t
know enough Chinese to hold up my end of a conversation. I think that I would then end up speaking
English, which would establish a pattern for the stay. However, I am optimistically hoping that
after the summer I will be able to say more than “jintian wanshang wo chu tushuguan zuo zuo
ye!” (honestly, they’ll think I’m so dull cos that’s all I can say!). Thus, I reckon there
is less chance of me establishing a pattern of English conversation (assuming, of course, that
they speak English)
 However, I also reckon that if I got an apartment/dorm over the summer I might be too lazy to
move out by the end and therefore never experience a homestay


As I said above, I realise that many of these issues are similar to thinks that have come up in
all the previous posts about study in China, and I do not want to waste your time by making you
all regurgitate them here. However, I would really appreciate any comments on the rationale behind
my personal plans… do you think that it sounds logical? Do you think I’ve made any serious
errors in judgement at any point?

Thanks a lot guys! Maybe after my trip I'll be able to return the favour with my own words of
wisdom?!

Nicky



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gato -



Quote:

 I selected BCLU for slightly rubbish reasons: it seems to be reasonably cheap, it has better
dates than UIR, and because my computer is steadfastly refusing to open web pages for Beijing
Normal University

Yes, that's not a very good reason. I would pick BNU over BCLU, as BCLU is full of English
speakers. In the summer months there should be even more, probably lots of teenagers. Give BNU a
call and ask them how you can get an application. They don't respond to emails. There should be at
least one quasi-English speaker in the office.

I would also consider Taipei Language Institute, which is one of the best private language schools
for learning Chinese.

Here's their website and an earlier thread about the school:
http://www.tli.com.tw/tli/eng/en/4-2-1.asp?class=4
Taipei Language Institute

http://www. /showth...&highlight=tli
Taipei Language Institute - Beijing (Dongcheng) - Query










NickyR -

Thanks a lot - good tip - I hadn't found the post about the 1 on 1 classes. They sound great for
making progress so I will contact them ASAP for more info.

Thanks

Nicky












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Free Chinese Lesson - anyone tried to recite something to improve oral mandarin -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
anyone tried to recite something to improve oral mandarin
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FLYINGFEATHER2 -

Hi,

I wonder is there anyone who tried to recite something to improve oral mandarin, like text book,
etc. How is the result? I think it's a good methord although it is not easy.

thanks.



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Xiao Kui -

The good thing abt reciting is it can help improve your pronunciation and help memorize and
internalize sentence patterns which are good to have on hand in spoken Chinese (that is unless of
course you are memorizing old poems - no useful sentence patterns there)

The bad thing abt memorizing and reciting is it's BORING. There are enough boring textbooks out
there - no need to memorize the dialogues inside and further bore yourself and others. I think 2
important keys when it comes to content for learning Chinese are 1, Variety 2. Study topics and
learn Chinese vocab for topics that would hold your interest in any language.










magores -

一个青蛙， 两张嘴
两个眼睛， 四条腿

Add 1 frog, and increase the numbers as appropriate., then add another, and another...

My co-worker has me say this all the time.

magores










Pravit -

I live in the US and very rarely have a chance to practice my spoken Mandarin. As a result, almost
all of my learning is passive: reading and listening. However, I've found that memorizing and
reciting entire pages of text is a good "active learning" method: I've found all sorts of words,
expressions, and constructions popping up in my speech from texts that I memorized. If you only
read a text, you may encounter dozens of new words and expressions, but it is sufficient to
understand them once and move on. However, memorizing, reciting, and writing down a text in a way
forces you to learn those words and use those expressions in your speech. It's useful in learning
to write all sorts of different characters - in my opinion, a quicker and more interesting way to
learn to write a given character than writing it dozens of times on a practice sheet. But more
importantly, it provides you with a basket of expressions and constructions to use in those times
when you wonder "how to say this properly?"

Of course, it's pointless reciting something only once - like memorizing anything else, it's best
to space it out in intervals as has been described in other places on this forum. I'm currently
using this method with "骆驼祥子" and can still recall entire pages that I learned months ago.










xianu -

As a student my teacher used to have us memorize and perform sections of our text in office hours.
I found it really improved my pronunciation, specially when I memorized it with the audio, and
like Pravit, when I finally got to China and was speaking to people, I found myself throwing out
little phrases from the memorized texts. I think memorizing the texts with things like directional
complements, and other sentence structure things was really good in helping me gain a feel for the
language, and helped me speak without having to think about the phrases.

That said, because as a student I hated memorizing (though I understood and experienced the value
of it), and because I wanted my students to have more communicative command of the language, I
have never asked them to memorize dialogues, though I recommend it to them all the time as ways to
study for both oral tests and the essay portion of the tests. It helps both written and spoken
Chinese in that, as long as you know what you are saying, you have set phrases in your head. If
you can remember a part of what needs to be said/written, the rest tends to come automatically,
and you know what needs to be said/written without thinking. It is the automatic part of the
language that I think is helpful.
However, somewhat hypocritically, but mostly I can't convince myself to be excited about hearing
20 people reciting the same lines over and over again, so I don't require it for my students.










gato -

I have a poor memory when it comes to memorizing text verbatim, though I have a good memory for
vocabulary. If I have to memorize verbatim, something that would take me ten minutes might take me
two hours to memorize. I don't think that would be an efficient use of my learning time. For those
who have better memories, it might be ok. I would still encourage people to read more challenging
reading materials instead of memorizing, though.










FLYINGFEATHER2 -

Thank you very much for your opinions.

Sounds it is good way to try. Of course, it depends on person. Well, then what material to recite
might be good. Is there any book just for mandarin learners to recite? If not, then what to recite
maybe good.

What are the lessons when you try this way?










ZLearner -

Hi

The other thing which helped me on my L's learning mandarin is a demo called Fluenz.

They help you remember the tones by testing yourself writing them out. You can easily test
yourself this way and create your own Fluenz way of learning - that's what I'm doing!

Best ever software I've found on the web so far. But out of my budget right now - $299 i think.

I learnt to speak after 2 plays of the demo.


Also check out my reply to 'I don't understand tones'


Hope this helps u!










villain -

I tried Fluenz too, loved the demo and i have copies of Pimsleur and Rosetta methods. Best
software by far, my copy is on the way.
Specifically to this thread, there is a module on it for each lesson that has you recite/interact
with a conversation that you can play back and compare with the native speaker.












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HSK Exam - Language Pledges -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Language Pledges
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roddy -

Sudden bout of curiousity: How many of you out there have at some point made a pledge to only
speak in Chinese, even to other foreigners? How successful was it? Did you manage to stick to the
pledge, or was it only when you were being observed? Did you wind up having fewer and less complex
conversations? How did you cope with people who just spoke to you in English? And does posting on
English-language forums constitute a breach?

It's not something I've ever done. However, a couple of obviously foreign girls did stop me once
and ask directions in Chinese for a local cafe. I replied in English, and only later realized I'd
probably caused them to break a language pledge. So if you're out there, sorry, and I hope you
enjoyed your sandwich.



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xianu -

I've done language pledges. They seem to work really well for the most part, although it is really
tough for the beginning students to do it. The more advanced students tend to do a lot of helping
out with vocabulary. I think if people aren't super totalitarian about it, and some Chinglish is
allowed, it can work well, and everyone's language improves. What I found was that even though for
the most part we spoke English once we left the school, the fact that we all engaged in a Chinese
environment together made it easier to slip into Chinese outside of the language pledge area.
Whereas it sometimes feels awkward to speak a mutual second language with people who also share
your first language, because we had the pledge, it was actually kind of natural.










FSO -

Roddy, in my program (basically CET, but all one-on-one instruction) we observe a language pledge
to speak only Chinese during the school day (i.e. from 0800 until 1500). That includes lunch and
breaks, so we students (all gringos) spend a considerable amount of time speaking to one another
in the target language. We are all fairly advanced students, so I agree with Xianu's point about
things probably being a bit more difficult for new beginners. The language pledge has been
particularly helpful in improving my casual speech - something I was sorely needing when I began
the program.

I think common sense is the key to observing language pledges. My colleagues and I go home to our
families every night, so we don't speak Chinese there. Also, when dealing with non-chinese
foreigners, we use whatever language is most appropriate. You don't want to cheat yourself or your
colleagues, but you also don't want to take the pledge to the point of absurdity. Anyway, that's
my view of it.










crow610 -

I just try to hang out with non-English speakers which is actually really hard when a lot of the
Chinese students are so eager to practice their English, and it seems apparent that they don't
want you to speak Chinese with them. With my English speaking friends, we usually speak English
but if there is a non-English speaker among us then we just stick to Chinese out of respect. It's
especially hard at times when you can tell the other person is so eager to speak English that
speaking Chinese might break their heart..haha










redmini -

interesting topic, ive definitely tried a number of times before to have language pledges with my
english speaking friends and originally they all probably lasted only for two seconds.. we tended
to have long silences when the parties involved were trying to construct what they wanted to say
in their heads, and then out tumbled half english half chinese grammatically incorrect sentences
that were met with confused looks and head shakes. then because no one understood, it was an all
too natural reaction to switch to english to explain.

getting a lot better though.. the pledges are lasting up to days now










adrianlondon -

I'm also curious to know if it worked.

I recently spent a semester living on campus in Beijing, learning Mandarin. I had quite a few
Chinese friends, and we'd spend some time chatting in English and some in Mandarin. However, this
wasn't a formal arrangement.

When I was chatting with my flatmate and his friends, all Indonesian, at the beginning we'd try to
use Mandarin, but I soon discovered that most of their tones were wrong and I was scared that I'd
end up learning the wrong tones. From experience, once you've learnt the wrong tone it's very
(very) hard to relearn it. So from that discovery on, I decided to chat in English with other
foreigners unless they were totally accurate in their tones. Limited vocabulary was no problem,
but bad tones scared me

Was I right to have done what I did?










heifeng -

My first six months plus out here I was super strict in my own personal language pledge:
- no English, (only exceptions lost tourists asking for directions)
- no English tv channels or movies
- no mandarin dubbed movies (too unnatural and not enough background noise)
- limited English news reading
- no falling into traps, thus avoiding any type of English teaching/ tutoring, 'teach me English'
psuedo friendship scenario.
- If it wasn't Chinese it was silence. (This will make you pretty proactive to go find a local
Chinese to chat with otherwise risk insanity.)


Then after the first year in China, I had a Chinese network and could relaxed the pledge a bit.










Ge-lin -

I din't think a language pledge is important if you have the will to learn--you'll end up speaking
the language. Why force it upon yourself? If I were to do such a thing, though, I would break if
for the foreigners that look really lost (I have saved a few from serious confusion); that's just
a kind thing to do, I think. Usually everyone in Taiwan outside of Taipei naturally speak to me in
Chinese (in Taipei they always speak English first)... If they do, and it annoys you, you could
say, "bu hao yi si, ke yi gen wo shuo zhong wen ma? Wai guo ren you bu yi ding hui jiang ying
wen.." (and that way you don't have to lie about not being able to speak English, just give them a
hint) or something
anyway, that's my two cents










<<恒心>> -

I've done it, and I think it worked very well. After getting my B.A. in Chinese, I spent a year
and a half at Beida and took a no-English-ever approach from the outset. When I arrived, I was
given a choice of roommates, so I picked a Japanese guy from Nara. He had studied English of
course, but he was too embarassed to use it, so we had no choice but to communicate in Chinese
only. I soon entered his circle of (Japanese) friends and with them as well, English was not an
option, either.

If I was on campus, I hung out with them, and if I was off campus, I hung out with Chinese
friends. I made friends with the employees and managers of the local internet cafe, and they were
all non-English speakers. Since most people figured I was a non-English speaker myself (rumor had
it I was German or something) the whole question of speaking English just never came up that much.

My Chinese got a lot better, faster, than my English-speaking classmates, and I also picked up a
fair amount of Japanese in the process, too. Also made friends with a lot of great people that
might not have otherwise.










crow610 -

Arg...maybe I'm just too nice but a majority of the people I meet on campus are ones who are eager
to learn English! Even when I speak mostly Chinese they will usually respond in English. Now those
of you who have this "pledge", how would you avoid this situation?
I actually sometimes prefer talking to the 服务员cause a) most don't know English and b)
they're not constantly talking about grades/school/finding a job..bla bla....












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Chinese Studies - Phrase Translation? -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Phrase Translation?
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zhongnewb -

hi everyone

ive been trying to start learning chinese, and a fluent friend of mine has been trying to help me.
sometimes she throws in phrases to see if i understand, and well, this time i didnt

<< ni hui you hen duo >>

= ?

thanks!



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Koneko -

You'll get a lot.
你会有很多。

K.












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Chinese Online Class - I Don't Feel Like Dancin' ~ Scissor Sisters - Page 3 -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
I Don't Feel Like Dancin' ~ Scissor Sisters
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Ding Yiyi -

Why the sniffles DJ. K.?



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Koneko -

Specially dedicated to my No 1 fan, Ding Yiyi.

Desafinado is one of my favourite songs!
Probably one of the best songs ever made in the entire universe!

Desafinado

Se Voce Disser Que Eu Desafi No Amor
Saiba que isto em mim provocaimensa dor
So privilegia dos tern ou vidoigual ao seu
Eu possuo a penas î que deus me deu

Se voce insiste em classificar
Î meu comportamento de anri musical
Eu mesmo menrindo possoargu mencar
Que is ãî ¸ bossa nova que is to ¸ mui to natural

Î que voce nao sabe nem siquer presente
¸ que os desafindos rambem tern coracao
Fotografei voce na minha rolleiflex
Revelouse a sua enor mein gratidao

So nao podera fatar assim do meu amor
¸ le ¸ î maior que voce pode enconirar 'viu'
Voce corn a sua musica es que ecu î principal

¸ que no peito dos desafindos
No fundo do peito bate cala do
¸ que no peito dos desafina
Dos tambem bate um coracao

DJ. K.










Ding Yiyi -

Jeez, you're putting out TONS of songs today DJ K, from all your other music postings I thought
you were a die-hard classic rock fan, that nothing else piqued your musical interest .... and
never would of figured you knew Portuguese!










Koneko -

Tears of happiness...

DJ. K.










Koneko -

Diversity is my middle name!

DJ. K.










Ding Yiyi -

Wouldn't it be your first name DJ.K.?










tuxoar -

There was a while back last fall when Scissor Sisters was really hot in Taiwan. On HitoRadio they
debuted and maintained #2 for 3-4 weeks (stuck just behind EVANESCENCE). They also had another
song called "Land of a thousand words" which never got any higher than # 8 in the Foreign/English
charts here in Taiwan. You can still hear these songs played a few times a week, not too bad...










Koneko -

Oh, I am going to melt...

Discover the beauty of French language here.

Jean-Baptiste Maunier's voice is so angelically calming but not as sleepy as Enya's.

Music from The Chorus. (Great film!)

DJ. K.










Koneko -

If you got it, flaunt it...

Well, I was in THE choir at my primary school and we won the first prize above all obstacles.
Well, among some 20 other choir groups from other schools with this patriotic song, Setia. Yes,
there was when all of us were so innocent and easily brainwashed by our teachers to sing so
fervently.

Setia

Demi negara yang tercinta
Dicurahkan bakti penuh setia
Demi Raja yang disanjung tinggi
Kesetiaan tak berbelah bagi

Kepada pemimpin kepada rakyat
Khidmat diberi penuh taat
Sama bekerja sama berusaha
Setia berkhidmat untuk semua

Rela berkorban apa saja
Amanah bangsa tetap dijaga
Kami berikrar penuh setia
Untuk agama, bangsa dan negara

DJ. K.










Koneko -

Introducing Le Tigre, new wave across the Atlantic!

Renowned for their highly political lyrics, dealing with issues of feminism and community.

Keep on Livin'

You hide inside, so not okay
(keep on, keep on livin')
What if you remember more today?
(Keep on, keep on livin')
The phone rings but there's too much to say
(keep on, keep on livin')
You tell them to go when you wish they would stay
(keep on, keep on livin')
You gotta keep on (keep on livin')...

Disproportionate reactions just won't fade
(keep on, keep on livin')
Every dude you see puts you in a rage
(keep on, keep on livin')
Or stupid s* keeps just make you cry
(keep on, keep on livin')
Your friends are worried you won't tell them why
(keep on, keep on livin')
You gotta keep on (keep on livin!)...

Look up to the sky sky sky.
Take back your own tonight.
You'll find more than you see.
It's time now now get ready.
So you can taste that sweet sweet cake
And feel the warm water in a lake (y'know).
What about that nice cool breeze?
And hear the buzzing of the bumble bees.
Just live beyond those neighbourhood lives
And go past the yard outside
And push through your greatest fears
And live past your memories tears
Cuz you don't need to scratch inside.
Just please hold onto your pride and...
So don't let them bring you down
And don't let them f* you around cuz those are you arms,
That is your heart and no no they can't tear you apart.
They can't take it away, no!
This is your time this is your life and...
(keep on livin!)...


DJ. K.












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Free Chinese Lesson - Is this a good site for pronunciation? -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Is this a good site for pronunciation?
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KiraKira -

http://www.newconceptmandarin.com/su...tro_Pinyin.asp

The bottom of the site has tool that lets you hear any syllables with the tone.

I thought this was a great find at the time since tracking down individual sounds otherwise would
be very hard, but want some input on if everyone thinks its a good guide to use. Sometimes its
hard to hear the difference between different pinyin but alike in sound syllables.

I normally have a pretty good ear but for example I can barely figure out the sound difference
from the recordings for the [shi] and [chi] which are used for the verbs [exist]& [eat] .. I can
hear the difference on pimsleur tapes pretty well so want to double check the site.



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HashiriKata -



Quote:

I normally have a pretty good ear but for example I can barely figure out the sound difference
from the recordings for the [shi] and [chi] which are used for the verbs [exist]& [eat] ..

Well done! And it is actually worse than you can hear/tell at the moment (I already posted a few
comments about what's wrong with the pronunciation on that site, if you care to search).
Meanwhile, try this site instead:
http://lost-theory.org/chinese/phonetics/

Edit: I've found the thread with comments concerning the site you mentioned:
http://www. /showthread.php?t=12997










KiraKira -

Thanks I'm really glad I asked now.

Using the new site I can hear the differences quite clearly.

As a sidenote though I would agree with a small complaint one person had in the thread regarding
how the layout could be a little better. Still very usable though even without everything done in
flash ;)












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Learning Chinese - stroke order differences -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
stroke order differences
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mkengel -

I know that there differences between the stroke order of identical Kanji/Hanzi in Japanese and
Chinese.
1) Does anybody know an URL with some explanations or rules ?

2) Are there also differences between the writing of Hanzi in Taiwan/Hongkong/Mainland China ? If
yes, please give some examples or an URL.

Thank you
Michael



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skylee -

Here is the Taiwan standard for traditional characters (follow it and I have no problem inputting
to my handset using stroke order method) -> http://www.edu.tw/EDU_WEB/EDU_MGT/MA...n/bs1.htm?open










JVGruat -



Quote:

I know that there differences between the stroke order of identical Kanji/Hanzi in Japanese and
Chinese. Does anybody know an URL with some explanations or rules ?

I have been followinf for a few years both the Chinese and the Japanese language French speaking
discussion groups on usenet - Japanese because of the kanji, of course - and noticed in a few
instances reference made to differences between Japanese and Chinese stroke orders for selected
characters - without further specifying whether this indeed resulted from different basic rules.

So thanks to your question I tried to understand it a bit better - which resulted in
http://www.jvgruat.com/Chine/strokes.pdf.

According to my sources, nine "rules" were identified for Japanese stroke order, 8 for Chinese.
Seven rules can be considered as common to Japanese and Chinese. This means however that one
Chinese rule is not formalized in Japanese theory "Minor stroke usually comes last", and two
Japanese rules have no formal Chinese equivalent - "vertical strokes drawn through the center are
written last"; "strokes which cut through the middle are written last".

This may explain some discrepancies. Another important point maybe the requirement, in Chinese,
that "usually each component (of a character) is written in its entirety before another component
is written" since the identification of components might differ from one language to the other.

So, a lot of uncertainties remain - at least for me !










mkengel -

First of all - thank you for the two replies.
Just an example of a simple difference of the Kanji/Hanzi stroke order (see attachment):
Japanese write 1-2-3 while Chinese write 1-3-2
There is some handwriting software which stumbles over such differences, e.g. not finding a Hanzi
character if you write it the Japanese way.
Thanks for any help - I will collect the info and release it to the list later.
Michael










volga_volga -

I have similar problem (stroke order differences) but between two hanzi sources.
Sometimes the book I am using (Most Common Chinese Radicals) by Zhang Pengpeng, Sinolingua, shows
slightly different stroke order from that used in ZDT (Zhongwen Development Tool).

I wonder why, and I wonder which one is the right one?










HashiriKata -



Quote:

I wonder why, and I wonder which one is the right one?

Just like in everything else, there are sometimes variations and the variations are all "correct".
Take the example given by mkengel above, there are two established ways of writing the first part
of the character. One is the stroke order you would use to approach 土 and the other is the order
you would use for 王, and these two orders are both well established and both leading to the same
end-result, so both of them are fine (It's worth noting that the ways we write complicated
characters are all derived from the ways we write simple ones). Our personal preference is based
mainly on which variation we happen to be taught or familiar with first, and it'd therefore be
narrow-minded to insist that one is more "correct" than the other.










volga_volga -

thanks! I am definitely not narrow-minded as far as stroke order is concerned. it's just that
after having read in many places that there is a certain stroke order in writing Chinese I saw to
different ones and was puzzled... it's more clear now that does not have to be 100%by the (same)
book.










HashiriKata -

Sorry Volga, I don't mean any of us here is narrow-minded about this. When I was writing the post,
it occurred to me that some "teachers" do insist on one way at the expense of others; and I was
only noting down the thought, but rather clumsily










Jose -

Here are some discrepancies I have come across as a student of Chinese over the last few years
when comparing textbooks from the Mainland and Taiwan as well as watching people write by hand.

1. 戈 I originally learned to write this character, either isolated or as a side component, with
the dot on the top-right corner last. However, Skylee's link shows a different order, starting as
弋 and finishing with the stroke at the bottom. This is apparently the standard stroke order in
Taiwan, whereas the one I use is probably (I think) the standard one on the Mainland.

2. 里 is written by most Chinese people as 甲 followed by the two bottom horizontal strokes.
Some textbooks show a different stroke order, beginning with 旦and then crossing with the
vertical stroke before doing the last horizontal stroke at the bottom. I am not sure if this may
be a Mainland vs. Taiwan/HK difference, or just a case of people writing differently from what the
books say.

3. There are also a number of characters that have ended up standardised in slightly different
ways in simplified and in traditional characters. In these cases, the differences in the stroke
order manifest themselves in a subtly different printed form. Typical cases are 別, 屆, 角, and
(sometimes) 周.

4. In traditional characters like 學, 興, 彎 or 樂 I always write the middle part before the
sides when doing the top (e.g. 樂 = 白 + 幺 + 幺 + 木). That's the way they taught me to
write these characters a long time ago, and seems to be the prescribed order, according to
Skylee's link. However, some Taiwan/HK/Mc people prefer to do the top of these characters from
left to right (樂 = 幺 + 白 + 幺 + 木).

5. Also in traditional characters, the plant radical 艹 (three strokes in the simplified
standard) is written as two crosses (i.e. four strokes). I would expect the stroke order to be
like two 十 (horizontal + vertical + horizontal + vertical). However, I remember using a textbook
that would show the correct order as vertical + horizontal + vertical + horizontal, which I find a
bit strange. I always hesitate with this radical when I write in traditional characters.










nipponman -

Oh, I didn't know there were any differences b/w chinese and japanese stroke order. When I learned
(Japanese) stroke order rules about 7 years ago, I stuck with them even though they are just
generalizations and don't apply to all characters. It doesn't really matter unless you're a
caligrapher imo.












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Chinese School - New Antiwave Podcast 人民大会谈4 - “东南西北”宋以朗 (下) - Page 4 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
New Antiwave Podcast 人民大会谈4 - “东南西北”宋以朗 (下)
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wushijiao -

I have been downloading a ton of old antiwave material. I wish they would make more 超级难说's!



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roddy -

This is an automatically generated post to alert users to a new Antiwave Podcast. See here for
more info.

沈阳，4月7日下午，一名储户在银行下班时与运钞员较劲，遂被一枪击中头��
�，当场死亡。平客反思：若为较劲故，一切皆可抛？
To listen to the podcast, visit the link below and click on 音频下载 (download) or
在线收听 (listen online), then post in this thread with any questions or comments. And don't
forget to leave a comment on Antiwave's own site to say thanks ;-)
More...










roddy -

This is an automatically generated post to alert users to a new Antiwave Podcast. See here for
more info.

飞猪连线了路透社“第二人生”分社的社长 Adam Reuters
，请他说说虚拟世界中的记者是怎么当的。
To listen to the podcast, visit the link below and click on 音频下载 (download) or
在线收听 (listen online), then post in this thread with any questions or comments. And don't
forget to leave a comment on Antiwave's own site to say thanks ;-)
More...










roddy -

This is an automatically generated post to alert users to a new Antiwave Podcast. See here for
more info.

飞猪连线了正在该校攻读博士学位的中国女生黄涛，给大家带来了现场的最�
��消息。
To listen to the podcast, visit the link below and click on 音频下载 (download) or
在线收听 (listen online), then post in this thread with any questions or comments. And don't
forget to leave a comment on Antiwave's own site to say thanks ;-)
More...










sayulee -

Thank you for supplying more information about this event.When I saw the horrible thing on TV
yesterday, it was just so sad.










roddy -

This is an automatically generated post to alert users to a new Antiwave Podcast. See here for
more info.

今天，平客七问弗吉尼亚理工大学枪击案。
To listen to the podcast, visit the link below and click on 音频下载 (download) or
在线收听 (listen online), then post in this thread with any questions or comments. And don't
forget to leave a comment on Antiwave's own site to say thanks ;-)
More...










imron -

Wow, Antiwave rocks. I can't wait to see some of the responses they get to the last question:


Quote:

最后一个问题是留给你的。这个问题，欢迎大家在留言区里留言。这是一个�
��设，假设这次枪击案发生在我们中国的北京大学，而凶手又是日本人，那��
�会发生什么？期待你的观点和看法。












roddy -

This is an automatically generated post to alert users to a new Antiwave Podcast. See here for
more info.

Channel 4
是如何定义“新媒体”的，他们正在运营哪些有趣的项目？飞猪请该台新媒�
��主管 Adam Gee 与各位分享他的经验之谈。
To listen to the podcast, visit the link below and click on 音频下载 (download) or
在线收听 (listen online), then post in this thread with any questions or comments. And don't
forget to leave a comment on Antiwave's own site to say thanks ;-)
More...










roddy -

This is an automatically generated post to alert users to a new Antiwave Podcast. See here for
more info.

本期话题：虚拟世界“第二人生” (Second Life)...
To listen to the podcast, visit the link below and click on 音频下载 (download) or
在线收听 (listen online), then post in this thread with any questions or comments. And don't
forget to leave a comment on Antiwave's own site to say thanks ;-)
More...










roddy -

This is an automatically generated post to alert users to a new Antiwave Podcast. See here for
more info.

飞猪请这位哥伦比亚大学教授、《纽约时报》专栏作家讲述从业经历以及对�
��媒体的看法。
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在线收听 (listen online), then post in this thread with any questions or comments. And don't
forget to leave a comment on Antiwave's own site to say thanks ;-)
More...












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Learning Chinese - 40% of Chinese can not speak Mandarin..... - Page 2 -

> Chinese Culture > Society
40% of Chinese can not speak Mandarin.....
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atitarev -

Interesting that these surveys/researches are done by foreigners (correct me if I am wrong).
Whenever I ask a Chinese person about the situation, they would say everybody knows (can speak,
etc) Mandarin but many people use their dialect in most situations. Were they asked if they can
speak Mandarin if they wanted to? Just a thought, there might quite a number of people who can't
speak Mandarin at all.



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Learn Chinese - Input Chinese punctuation marks (PC & Mac) -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Input Chinese punctuation marks (PC & Mac)
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Koneko -

Dear All,

Please can you teach me how to input the following Chinese punctuation marks (PC & Mac),

Enumeration comma 顿号
Middle dot 间隔号
Dash 破折号

I normally use comma (,) for the enumeration comma; full stop (.) for the middle dot; and six
minus signs for the dash (------)

I learnt from a similar thread posted by kaox0018 on 8 December 2006 that you could input the
enumeration comma by hitting the backslash (\) key for PC. Well, I've tried this on my PC but it
didn't work.

Do you know how can I overcome this problem?

Many thanks!
K.



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imron -

If you are using open punctuation mode in most PC Chinese input methods,
. produces 。
, produces ，
\ produces 、
shift-2 produces ·

(for windows input methods, typing ctrl-. usually toggles between open/closed punctuation)

It's slightly different on a Mac where,
/ produces 、

also usually, the —— is produced by typing _ (the underscore character), and shift-6 produces
……

Because each input method might be slightly different though, a good idea is to just open up
notepad, switch to open punctuation mode and then type all the punctuation keys (and then type
them all again, while holding shift). This is the easiest way to find out what keys do what.

On the PC it's important to make sure you are using open punctuation, otherwise the punctuation
marks will be the same as they are on the normal US/UK keyboard.

Most Chinese input methods on the Mac (or at least the ones I've used) always seem to use open
punctuation all the time.










Koneko -

Cheers mate!
Thanks for your help!

K.










tai4ji2x -

on windows, microsoft word, using the XP built-in IME, it doesn't seem to work when using
traditional character input, whereas it works fine for simplified.










tai4ji2x -

bump










ipsi() -

Should work fine with traditional - it does on my English Windows XP. If it doesn't, try ctrl + .
to change it. Otherwise, have a look at the IME bar, and see if the punctuation marks look like .,
or 。，. If it's the second, everything should work. If it's not, click on it.










tai4ji2x -

well, i have it at chinese (taiwan), and when i press "ctrl-period", nothing changes. if it means
anything, the language bar with chinese (prc) does include a "punctuation" option, whereas for
chinese (taiwan), i have: "microsoft new phonetic IME 2000a", "Chinese", "half shape", and "tools".












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Chinese Character - 30 million more men than women in China by 2020 - Page 3 -

> Chinese Culture > Society
30 million more men than women in China by 2020
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gougou -



Quote:

Well, I do doubt that China will permit such a loss of human resource in the next few years.

Again, if Chinese women don't want them, why would the party want them?



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chenpv -



Quote:

Again, if Chinese women don't want them, why would the party want them?

Oh well, maybe afraid of being accused of violating human rights if western media picture the
whole story as 'Chinese government forcing thousands of bachelors out of China'. Besides, China
has no 'Maternacracy'.










roddy -

I'd agree - I think any government looking at over-population and under-employment, given the
opportunity to get rid of the most under-educated, under-employed section of it's menfolk (and
those are in all likelihood the men who are going to miss out) in some way it couldn't be blamed
for would probably jump at the chance. However, these are the men that are least likely to be
welcome to go and work in other countries.

Wonder what the consequences of having 30 million more women than men would be. . .










Luobot -



Quote:

Wonder what the consequences of having 30 million more women than men would be. . .

Fewer wars ... more shopping ...










chenpv -



Quote:


Originally Posted by Luobot



Quote:


Originally Posted by roddy

Wonder what the consequences of having 30 million more women than men would be. . .


Fewer wars ... more shopping ...


Luobot, I am afraid you misinterpreted roddy. He was probably thinking otherwise on reading
adrionlondon's saying:

Quote:

maybe there needs to be a legalisation of polyandry (one woman, many husbands).

I am wrong?
(Btw, what's the english word for 'one husband, many women'? )


I have been thinking whether the statistics that 'there were 118.6 boys born for every 100 girls'
could be depicted from another angle, so as to evaluate the efficacy of One-Child policy.

Irrespective of effectors from child policy for ethnic minorities and people from rural area, if
we suppose a sample of 200 families, does this 118.6 over 100 datum suggest that about 19
families, 8.5% of total, choose to violate the One-Child policy? Am I way off the track?










Koneko -



Quote:


Originally Posted by chenpv

(Btw, what's the english word for 'one husband, many women'? )


Yes, that's right. I can't think of any other word other than this.

But polyandry is not the only solution to this imbalanced gender ratio in China.

Maybe, the government of China can pass a new act, viz., Adelphogamy Act?!
It's a policy for several brothers from the same family to share a common wife, aka, alpha
female!! Ha ha..

But then, I just realised that there are no brothers in Chinese Han families in Mainland China.

K.










HashiriKata -



Quote:

But then, I just realised that there are no brothers in Chinese Han families in Mainland China.

Koneko, there're brothers in my family. What do you think?
(And you don't have to go as far as China! )










Koneko -



Quote:

Koneko, there're brothers in my family. What do you think?

Ha ha... The second question will be:- Do you want to be the alpha male or beta male?



Quote:

(And you don't have to go as far as China! )

Gender ratio in Japan is quite even as shown here, 1.01 males/female



K.










sui.generis -



Quote:


Originally Posted by chenpv

(Btw, what's the english word for 'one husband, many women'? )


polygyny. Funny, as I was reading this thread I was wracking my brain to think of how to say
polyandry.

Another solution I've heard suggested is the about-face of the gov't to encourage homosexuality.
It certainly doesn't seem pre-disposed to do so, but to me the party seems just pragmatic enough
make that sort of change.

This is an unusual permutation of a gender imbalance problem, but it's far from the first. In
societies that have practiced polygamy, which is virtually always polygyny, even though there may
be an equal number of both genders, not every man gets multiple wives. The more powerful and the
more wealthy get many wives, and the poor and powerless get none. Generally there are more poor
powerless men in a society than not, and so the majority get nothing. The other variation of the
problem is when you have massive war deaths of the male population. These are generally followed
by an increase of births of male babies, which may be triggered by a general hormonal shift
(testosterone/gondatrophin) in the remaining female population--forced to take on roles thought of
as masculine to fill the economic and social gap, and under that hormonal shift they are more
likely to give birth to male babies.

I don't know if it works in exactly the opposite direction, such that an opposite shift in
hormonal balance would lead to an increase in the births of female babies, but that could
ultimately provide a solution without gov't intervention (or compliment intervention). If the
competition amongst potential male suitors for female companionship led to an increase in
chivalrous, caretaker type behaviour that was met with an equal increase/assumption of traditional
gender roles, and if that assumption had the opposite effect on hormone levels in potential
mothers that the assumption of traditional male gender roles had, and if that opposite hormone
level led to an increase in female baby births, then the population would even out. There'd be
more 40 year old men with 20 year old wives in 2040 than normal, but I don't think that would
present an immediate problem.

Before you get on me for any perceived sexism, read pg 123, The Red Queen. The book is not science
fact, but it is science. My attempted extension is neither, but is an honest attempt.










gougou -



Quote:

and under that hormonal shift they are more likely to give birth to male babies.

Impressed again by what a cool species we are...

About encouraging homosexuality, I don't think that is something you can change by decree. My
guess is that most of the people that will not find a partner come from less than liberal
backgrounds; homosexuality isn't even on their radars yet. It would take a die hard party member
to change sexual orientation just because Hu Jintao asked him to...












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Pnyin - Antiwave back online - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Antiwave back online
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Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 34 >






Meng Lelan -

Imron,

Great description imron and many thanks. Of course I won't ever be able to hear the podcast itself
but reading the online article I could actually imagine what you described as upbeat music playing
in the background and the satiric sound of the announcer. Now if I can only do that for the other
Antiwaves...

Lelan



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roddy -

Interview with Al-Jazeera English's correspondent in Beijing up today. Haven't listened to this
yet, but downloading it now for my subway journey later . . .










Meng Lelan -

Let me know when you do listen Roddy, in the meantime I'm trying to hunt down the written version.

Lelan










roddy -

Wasn't actually that interesting to be honest.

Antiwave don't, as far as I'm aware, produce transcripts for any of their stuff. If anyone else is
doing it I'd love to know about it. Your best bet is probably to look at the older stuff back in
the archives - the longer it's been up, the greater chance someone somewhere has transcribed it.










zhwj -

Has anyone listened to podcasts by Zheng Yuanjie (郑渊洁)? He has a series that's up to 60-some
episodes now that primarily features him making small talk while on the can. The first episode,
where he is approached to judge a bra contest, has a transcript.

The rest are hit or miss, and he adds in a laugh track which is kind of lame.










venture160 -

Just started listening to antiwave after I watched the interview on danwei, I too find listening
to my advanced books on tape boring as all **$%$, and Chinesepod is no better. BBC is great for
news, but Antiwave is awesome for listening to some actual interesting material!

I wonder if there is anything else out there along the lines of what these guys are doing, or are
they pretty much 播客上最先锋的吗？










flameproof -

Is there anything out there that IS interesting and WITH transcript (just Chinese is perfectly OK).

Antiwave does look very interesting, but with no write up it maybe be impossible for me to catch,
at least for now.










roddy -

How many regular Antiwave listeners do we have? If there's enough interest I should be able to use
their RSS feed to automatically add a new thread to the forum when they publish a new show, and
that thread could then be used for comments on and questions about the content. If I can get a
handful of people who reckon they will participate I'd be happy to go ahead and do that.










bagz007 -

That's a phenomenal idea--count me in.

Glad to see other people also desperately in search of interesting, REAL material to listen to
over the net. I enjoyed the advanced ChinesePods for a while, but they're all starting to sound
the same...antiwave rocks.










yonitabonita -

I'm in.

I never understand the entire program but I'm always listening.

It had occurred to me that it would be great to have an antiwave discussion thread too. So, yep,
great idea Roddy!

Y












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Chinese language - Curse of the golden flower - 满城尽带黄金甲 - spoiler FREE! - Page 3 -

> Chinese Culture > Films and Television
Curse of the golden flower - 满城尽带黄金甲 - spoiler FREE!
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Page 3 of 3 < 12 3






mind_wander -

I spend sometime take a look at this film. In comparing to Huo Yuan Jia, although this has nothing
to do with emperial dynasty, but the clarity about the main points. The curse of the golden flower
does not take a genius to figure out the plot. However it could at least allow more better
dialogue from different angles of characters, because I like Jet Li's-Huo Yuan Jia, at least it
point out the main point some thinking involved.
But, I give curse of the golden flower 3 1/2 stars, because of the great costume design, also
picked out good acters/actress into this screenplay.



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Outofin -

Watched it just a few days ago and didn't like it.
They really should spend more budgets and efforts on fighting and war scenes. It's choreographed
by 程晓东. I used to appreciate his work. But now if we compare him with Yuen Wo-Ping,
(Fearless, for example) they're really not on the same level. Yuen is way better.










Koneko -

According to Sin Chew Jit Poh

Malaysia was the only country in the world where you could watch Cantonese-dubbed
满城尽带黄金甲 at their cinemas! Even Hong Kong played the film in its original language,
Mandarin.

How can we promote Mandarin in Malaysia?
Malaysia Chinese society is like big melting pot.

K.










Jack MacKelly -

I must check this movie out










Ian_Lee -

I watched it on DVD yesterday.

(1) The story didn't happen during Tang Dynasty as widely thought. If it were Tang Dynasty, then
Chow should not be titled just as "King" but "Mandate of Heaven". I guess Zhang ambiguously
implied it happened during/in one of those peripherial kingdoms after the doom of Tang dynasty. In
fact, the movie mentioned another kingdom called "Liang" which couldn't exist under a unified Tang.

(2) If it didn't happen during Tang, then the big boob phenomenon should not appear. Tang was only
liberal during the initial stage when there were widespread contacts with the WEST (Arabs &
Persians). But when the Silk Road was closed after Tang forces were defeated by Arab army in
Central Asia in AD 751, Tang gradually became conservative and inward looking. I seriously doubt
if big boob clothing was still the fashion 150 years after the Silk Road was cut off.

(3) Of course, the big boob was just one of the calculated selling points of Zhang. Just like the
cast includes Chow and Chou that targets at different segments of audience, the inclusion of big
boob may be aimed to lure those Oscar judges

(4) For the announcing of hours in the movie, I really doubt if it was conducted that way. If it
were so noisy, I guess everyone in the Palace would be awakened at night

(5) But why was the theme of Zhang's classical-era movies getting more despair one after another?
Why was it getting more and more bloodthirsty one after another? In Zhang's non-classical-era
movies like "To Live", "Not One Less", the audience see HOPE at the end of the movies.










zarathustra -

Zhang Yimou has always been the most philosophical of Chinese directors. His earlier films are
mostly about women struggling with Chinese tradition. He's now directly critical of Chinese
culture and philosophy. Golden Flower is pretty much a critique if ideas like filial piety. He's
not too fond of all this mandate from heaven stuff.










Quest -

Saw it tonight, I think it was good, would have been well worth the ticket if I saw it on big
screen. Personally I don't care about kungfu or fight scenes, which certainly aren't the main
selling points of this movie, the people who gave it a bad rating might have had those
expectations?










Koneko -

I finally finished the whole film last week.
I thought the story line was a bit crap.

But I like the song, 菊花台。

K.












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Learning Chinese - Buying a dSLR in Beijing -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Buying a dSLR in Beijing
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Page 1 of 2 1 2 >






adrianlondon -

Some time before the end of January I need to buy a decent camera. My course here finishes then,
and I plan on travelling around China for a few weeks before returning to London and replenishing
my bank account via a job.

I may well change my mind between now and then, but my current desire is the Pentax K10D (for
reasons I can go into if people care enough).

Anyone seen one in Beijing and know its price? I know I can go to Zhongguangcun and enter the
crazy world of laowai haggling, but I'd like to get a rough idea of the price (and availability!)
first. If anyone knows, of course.



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roddy -

If you do a search on D70s on here, you'll turn up a number of posts people have made before /
just after buying a DSLR. Obviously not the same model, but the general idea is the same. Few
links for price checking here.

Edit: Rayi aren't listing any Pentax （宾得) stuff, but Taobao have a few K10D sellers in
Beijing but from the look of it they're pre-orders rather than in stock.










adrianlondon -

Thanks for that, Roddy; I'll go through the links.

A quick glance seems to confirm my suspicions that the K10D is still too new to be listed;
although that could be because I don't really know how to search for it. Can someone confirm what
"Pentax" is in Mandarin ... is it 宾得?










okokla -

yes "Pentax" is "宾得",i know it will be saled in Zhongguangcun in the late December,price is
about 7500RMB. maybe you should go there http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/163/163254.shtml.

But in my opinion Nikon D80 is better.










roddy -

Might be worth bearing in mind that when it's just come onto the shelves your chances of discounts
are even lower than at any other time. Also If you're leaving almost immediately after purchase
you probably want to make sure your warranty will be valid back home.










okokla -

agree with you , roddy










adrianlondon -

That works out at £500 which, as is to be expected for a new camera, is the same as the cheapest
UK price. If I do end up buying a camera here, which is likely as I want a decent one for my trip
around China, I'll make sure I check the warantee/guarantee.

The D80 is a nice camera but the weather sealing of the K10D is a slight draw and the in-body
anti-shake thing is a big draw for me. Most of my photography is of interior architecture (such as
cathedrals, other old buildings etc.) and inside museums where flash and tripods are usually
forbidden. I want anti-shake on wide angle (prime, ideally) lenses and neither Nikon or Canon
appear to put anti-shake on anything but mid-range zooms. I know this whole anti-shake thing is
hotly debated, but I want it ;)










Shiela -

Hi Adrian,

See you made it to BNU, I ended up at Renda.

Anyway, back to dSLR. I was looking at them just before leaving UK for my RTW trip. I ended up
choosing the Minolta Dynax 5D dSLR, mainly because their film lenses can be used on a digital
body. However, it does have inbuilt anti-shake which can be turned off if desired. So far, my pics
have turned out pretty well - even managed to impress myself!

This would have been around GBP450 in London (May06) but managed to save roughly GBP50 in Hong
Kong. So if you're planning a trip to HK may be worth looking there. Might also have the Pentax
and will probably have more choice than Beijing.

However, if you're on a single entry F-visa you'll need to get another to enter China again.










Shiela -

Adrian,

P.S. The anti-shake on the Minolta is on the body - which can be bought separately - not the lens.
Also, if price is a factor Tamron and Sigma also do lenses for Minolta.










adrianlondon -

Thanks for the tips, Sheila. Yeah, I've been kidnapped on the F visa. I know I could apply for a
re-entry stamp, but I'm only here for the one semester.

My studies finish on 19th January. My visa (and my return flight validity!) run out on 1st March
or something. So that gives me a few weeks to travel around. I had grand plans of going to many
many places but the high cost of internal flights, plus the crazy train system here (especially
over CNY it's on 18th Feb 2007) mean I might focus on two or three key cities.

I could just use my crappy pocket camera and buy the dSLR when I return to London, but I'd like to
have it here, really. I emailed Pentax and asked about the warantee and they said it would be fine
so long as I had some proof-of-purchase, ie a receipt.

I don't have any film lenses (I owned a Canon EOS300 quite a few years ago, but sold it along with
the lenses) and would prefer digital (i.e. cropped sensor) lenses anyway, for th reduced
size/weight. I'd love a full frame sensor, eg the Canon 5D, but that thing is just too big and
heavy for me.












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